Another discussion post, inspired by this last picture. One thing I’ve never really explored, or honestly thought about too much, is the question of who exactly is in favor of permanent nudity. No doubt it would be a political issue in this world. It’s pretty easy to imagine who’d be against it, religious conservatives would not be pleased I expect. Although since nude punishments and voluntary registration are kind of a package deal, perhaps some could get on board with it for that reason. And conversely, I can imagine some on the left are probably critical of the involuntary aspect from a “social justice” perspective, even though it seems pretty clearly preferable to prison.
But who exactly is in favor of it? Just naturists? Hard to imagine them having enough political clout. General libertarian types? “If people wanna be naked, that’s cool. Doesn’t hurt anyone.” I mean if this were real I’d probably support it mostly for that reason. But that still seems a little weak.
A related question is what the official stance is. Like does the government actively encourage permanent nudity? If so, why? I kind of imagine they’d be fairly neutral. Their interest in nude punishments is clear, it’s a cheaper alternative to prison, but if anything voluntary nudity undercuts that somewhat.
I’m curious if any of you have thought about these things, and if so, how you imagine this all playing out.
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There was an interesting report on BBC radio From Our Own Co-respondent ( https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ukraines-second-spring-of-war/id73331209?i=1000605855858 starting around 21:27 into the programme) regarding public nudity in Germany. Like the correspondent, most people would probably be reticent at first but enjoy nudity if they get to try it.
Who would favor the laws that produce the NWO universe? Just about any drastic law can be tracked back to someone making a bunch of money. Who makes a lot of money off nudity? The porn industry.
The biggest vulnerability of the “porn industrial complex” or PIC (grin) is the idea that not many folks feel free to support it publicly. And without open public support, they can be regulated rather severely.
Full or partial nude penalties depend on shame. Porn and related art counterintuitively enhance shame. If nudity is “something naughty,” the punishments stay effective. At least, the PIC can argue that — “We provide a public service!” Conversely, the penalties also enhance sexual shame somewhat, which in turn increases the attraction of some forms of porn.
Voluntary nude registration gives PNs “a dog in this hunt.” Harder to say that over there is porn when that over there is just nekkid folk being affectionate.
One more point: the political influence of the NRA isn’t from the votes, they simply don’t have enough members for that nationwide. It’s the money. And who has the money? The folks who make and sell guns. Likewise, the political influence of the Council for Casual Nakedness isn’t from the membership — if they even have members (PNs maybe…). It’s the money. And the PIC has the money, even without the New Laws. All the politicians will want to keep those PIC contributions coming, no matter their party.
And once the New Laws are there? “States Rights!” Bet there was a first state that had PN, like Nevada had gambling.
And heck, the reason female Top Free is legal in New York State (not just the city) is that the New York Supreme Court found the corresponding restriction unconstitutional because it is discriminatory. There’s your engine for producing both the punishment and the voluntary aspects. The former to try to avoid a US Supreme Court ruling regarding that same truth, the latter like the Hayes Commission for movies: “See, we already allowed enough, no need for a Court case!”
Further deponent sayeth not.
Interesting thoughts. Specifically the porn industry part, but I’m inclined to think they would see all public nudity, be it voluntary or not, as competition.
States rights certainly could come up, although I’m not quite sold on that being a primary driver. One place I can think of that might have been significant is when states who legalized permanent nudity sooner than others wanted to be able to allow registered nudity on broadcast TV, which the FCC probably opposed initially.
Libertarians would favor nudity at will with no registration. Once enough people take advantage of that and public nudity is not remarkable anymore, nude punishments are worthless.
Maybe we get to the point that being forced to wear clothes is the punishment.
Yeah, libertarian is pretty much what how I’d describe my own politics, and that is indeed what I would be in favor of IRL.
Regarding clothing as a punishment, technically that can happen in the setting already, though it’s only been once mentioned once or twice. You can receive a bottomless sentence, even if you’re already permanently naked, so essentially the punishment is you have to start wearing a shirt.
It’s simple!
The Far Left are in favor because they think it will annoy the Alt-Right.
The Alt-Right is in favor because they think it will annoy the SJWs.
The SJWs are in favor because they think it will annoy the Religious Right.
The Religious Right is in favor because it makes it easier to see if someone has the Mark of the Beast.
Libertarians are against it – not because of the nudity, but because they think it shouldn’t require a license.
Everyone else just goes along with it, because they definitely do not feel like a ‘discussion’ with one of the above groups.
In fact, the only ones who really oppose it are the Esoteric Third Way Posadists – all three of them.
I doubt nudists would promote the idea of punitive nudity or nudity being mandatory for a few given individuals. Nudists do not want CxNy, they either want a free choice for anyone at any given time or be nude among other nude people. If nudity is mandatory, it is on a per-location and not per-person basis. So nudists would not come up with a PN system. Unless:
Maybe nude punishments were introduced as a public shaming measure (compare the Sparrows and their walks of shame in GoT). But a few people who wanted to go nude in public abused the system to deliberately enable themselves to spend time nude in public by committing petty crimes. Voluntary registration might then have been introduced to put an end to the “shoplifting for nudity” spree.
Right, thanks for pointing that out. I neglected that in my summary here. Nudists/naturists would certainly not be comfortable with nudity being used as a punishment. I can sort of imagine them accepting the part about having to register and be naked all the time though. It’s a compromise, to be sure, but some of the other stories (Like Gloria’s or “How Sarah Became a Nudist”) do a pretty good job of explaining how this might come about. Basically it could be seen as a way accommodate people who have a strong belief that nudity is natural, etc. while setting a high bar to weed out those who are more interested in exploiting it for attention or sexual kicks.
Plus, it does have the advantage that no one can ever tell you to get dressed if you’re not even allowed to. Like you work in a bank or whatever, and your boss doesn’t really think having a naked teller looks good. If it were your choice to wear clothes or not at any time, he could pressure you, even if officially there was some protection for a right to work naked. But if you can’t wear clothes, then the only question is whether you’d be allowed to work there at all, which reframes issue as one of discrimination.
Back to punitive nudity, though, I realize it is fundamentally kind of at odds with voluntary nudity. But since I’m not really trying to explain the ultimate origin of the laws, I just assume most people in this world accept that the two are a “package deal” as I put it earlier, even though they may support one more than the other.
Yes, the two would very likely be a package deal. Those for Permanudity would be for voluntary. The legislators opposed to nudity might counter with the punishment side in an effort to kill the law. The compromise would be both, as well as the legal obligation to have to go nude and for several years at a time. I think that all of these different and sometimes crazy aspects of Permanude can be put at the feet of how the laws are actually put together and passed. At least, that what I showed with the Amy stories.
I just published one where Texas has enacted the penal side and refused the voluntary side. Now there’s a case where nudists might consider a few ounces of weed or stealing a pair of socks to get themselves “shames.”
All in all, it’s a lot of fun to think about and play in this world.
I wonder how they would determine who gets nude punishments and if they would psychologically profile the recipient. For instance, a bottomless punishment would quite suit me. My wife says I still have a pert bottom and I’ve no qualms about putting “Percy” out there but I am really self conscious about the spare tyre that’s appeared around my gut with advancing years and it’s actually a TOPLESS sentence that would cause me embarrassment and pain!
I would defently go for this being a guy even i wouldnt care what someone elseses got that i haven’t when nude we’re all the same when the clothes come off. I also would use this as punishment one day too. If just at home but with lifestyles changing i would one day hope seeing someone publicly naked a common occurance. Have this as the best deterent for many crimes and they will dissappear. Also alot of social and steriotipical issues in society will be benifited by having perminude available as a tool to help teach and guide. Keeping in mind the sexual side to peoples thinking with nudity those rules all stay put but if say caught stealing sentenced to 2 months with good behaviour. And if anyone tries to involve themselves with the subject then its a true criminal affence. With technology today im sure that can be prevented. But subject matter if know of for ages. For this though you need a ambassador id pick milley cyrus for it. From past interviews she would make a good choice. You wouldnt think twice about a life of crime if public nudity was the punishment
From the political side, I don’t see this happening. Not as a sudden decision by Washington. However, as I did in my Amy stories, California presents a fertile field. They’ve already got naked runners in the Bay to Breakers, in the Solstice and Gay Pride Parades, and in much of the state, mere nudity is not a jailing offense. What if one girl decided to push the boundaries in her small town, then pushed them some more and more until, with help from a lot of nudists and naturists, CA might go Permanude. Then maybe Florida, then maybe a few more states.
The Volunteer as well as OMG, I’m Naked in School, are two good books that look at this gradual expansion. OMG definitely looks like the Feds are getting their big toe wet.
I could see the national government then getting into the act. There are several pressures on this. The libertarians would love it. The nudists of course, but there’s also the prospects of changing the entire relationship between women and men, maybe even changing the way power is shared in our culture.
To me, Permanude is a fun idea to kid around with. I now have 18 stories in my Permanude universe. Real. Maybe in my grandkids’ lifetime.
I can see how nudists would in fact oppose it on ground that they’re opposed to seeing nudism as a punishment, and some of the more radical ones on grounds of it requiring registration as a special group.
Especially the first element (nudity as a punishment) is something that doesn’t sit quite right with me as a nudist myself.
I think the main opposition will come from the political left. Not because they’re opposed to nudism per se (though many on the left are extremely prudish), but mostly because they’re opposed to just about anything that allows people to choose their own destiny rather than have it dictated.
So they’d oppose it not because of the nudity, but because of the voluntary aspect of it.
I have to agree about the nudity as punishment. When some are doing it voluntarily it sends a mixed message. How bad can it be if they are getting in line for it.
About the left-right politics, I also agree and had never thought of it that way. Read (any of) Thomas Sowell’s books for new angles and great writing.
Don’t underestimate the number of nudists or naturists or however ou call them 😉
Also there may be some health groups, as low vitamine D is seen as a source for a ton of civilisation diseases.